- Posted By: webadmin
- Comments: 9
Toxey Hall - Mar 12, 2010
I have just added some Hall-related information from two books by Robert Barnes- "Baltimore County Families, 1659-1759" and Baltimore County, Maryland Deed Extracts, 1659-1759. The "Families" book indicates that Squire John's father Joshua married Diana Spicer's sister Ann after the death of Diana. On the same page (p.295) it states that Joshua's will left 1/3 of his property to "his friend Mrs. Ann Spicer".
In a telephone conversation with Danna Twyman Gibson on November 8, 2008, Danna told me that Diana Spicer had a sister named Ann. After Diana died Ann bore some of Joshua’s Children. These children carried the Hall Name also. At that time, MD law prohibited a man from marrying his wife’s sister.
So we have a new mystery. How many of us are descended from Joshua's sister in law?
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Joshua Hall conveyed land to Joshua Jr.
Debbie Hall Daugherty - Mar 13, 2010
Hi Toxy,
Joshua Hall conveyed land to Joshua Jr., John, Mary and Thomas before he wrote his will. In that will, I have a copy, he left 1/3rd of his real and personal property to Mrs. Ann Spicer, whom he described as "my much respected friend, during her life and after her dealth it was to go to his much respected friends Edward Spicer and William Spicer." It was against the law to marry your deceased wife's sister so it would appear the lived together and had two subsequent sons . Not as uncommone as we would think back then. Debbie
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I read your response with great interest
Toxey Hall - Mar 13, 2010
Hi Debbie,
I read your response with great interest. I have the following birth dates, without documentation, for four children of Joshua Hall - John (1731), Mary (1731), Joshua Jr., 1737, Thomas (1745). If Ann bore two sons, they would most likely be the youngest, Joshua Jr. and Thomas. Does your info cast any light on this?
A ain't uncommon today either.
Toxey
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I guess it is up for interpretation
Debbie Hall Daugherty - Mar 14, 2010
Hi Toxy,
I guess it is up for interpretation but my takeaway was that William and Edward Spicer were Joshua's sons and that the other four were all born to Diana. In the will Joshua did note that it was feared William had perished at sea. Certainly worth pursuing. I am confident John Hall was Joshua's son since he named a daughter Diana though.
I am currently poking around to see what I can find about the Williamsons between work and school. Not much time to do what I love....genealogy :D
webadmin
Great dialog we've got going on here
Toxey Hall - Mar 14, 2010
Hi Debbie: Great dialog we've got going on here.
My notes from the telecon with Danna Gibson say (loosely quoted) "Diana Spicer had a sister named Ann. After Diana died Ann bore some of Joshua’s Children. These children carried the Hall Name also. At that time, MD law prohibited a man from marrying his wife’s sister." I take this to indicate that William and Edward, were not the sons in question. The aforesaid notes also say " Re: Squire John Hall’s parents were Joshua Hall and Diana Spicer. She has researched William & -------, and sees no connection."
OK, I am a lousey note taker I am not sure ______ was Edward. I may have asked Danna about a William Hall mentioned in a report genealogical from Don Godfrey which reads "!Book "Abstracts of Minutes of the Court of P&QS, Rowan Co, NC, 1753-1762", pg 121; II:320 ordered that John Hall have letters of Administration of the estate of William Hall dec'd and gives Jacob Thomas and Moses White security in the
sum ___ pounds (L) pro. money and Quallified accordingly."
Before we found out about Joshua, there was speculation that this William was Squire John's father.
I think I will Ask Danna to clarify "William & _____".
Toxey
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At one time
Donald Godfrey - Mar 15, 2010
Toxey,
At one time. I thought Willim Hall in Rowan Co, NC was the father of our John Hall and he did have a son John but not our guy. I traced William back to Augusta Co, VA, he was never in MD.
Don
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The Laws of Colonial Maryland
Danna Gibson - May 16, 2010
Hi Toxey. The Laws of Colonial Maryland were known as Kilty's Laws and they strictly prohibited related persons from marrying. Kilty's Laws were abolished in 1790.
The following information as pertains Ann Spicer and was taken from the publication, Bastardy Cases in Baltimore County, Maryland, 1673-1783, by Henry C. Peden:
Cases of Ann Spicer
1746-1756
Ann Spicer, daughter of John Spicer, who died testate by 7 March 1739/1740 was charged with bastardy in 1756, having two bastard children (no names given) born of her body. She was fined 6 pounds in November court, 1756. Her security was Joshua Hall. She was probably the "Ann Spicer" who was charged with unlawful cohabitation with James Cain by the vestry of St. George's Parish on 31 March 1746. She appears to have married James Cain on 15 April 1746, and she may have married second to Joshua Hall, but she was called Ann Spicer in 1756.
Sincerely, Danna
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The four children Mary(1731)
Donald Godfrey - Mar 15, 2010
Toxey,
The four children Mary(1731), John(1735) , Joshua(1737) and Thomas(1745) were Joshua and Diana's children. Diana died in 1749.
William and Edward were Joshua and Ann's children.
Joshua provided for the children of his 1st marriage during his life and the children of Ann by his will.
I use 1735 for John because I assume he was 20 or 21 when he married Mary Price in 1757.
Don
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It struck me when reading his will
Linda Cushing - May 22, 2010
It struck me when reading his will, "Mrs" Ann Spicer. Wouldn't that suggest that she was not blood kin to Diana but a sister in law called sister? Why was he leaving his estate to the Spicers? He was supposed to have sons. If that is true, the Spicers must have loaned him money or something? Why else leave your entire estate to your inlaws?
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John Spicer's will
Donald Godfrey - May 23, 2010
Linda,
John Spicer's will names Diana Hall and Ann Spicer as children.
Joshua is leaving something in his will to his comon law wife and their children after providing for his children from his 1st marriage before his death.
Don